Tuesday, March 13, 2012

The Separation of Church and State

Get the MP3 of "The God Solution" show #52 - "The Separation of Church and State" below! Get the notes hereGet all of our interviews here and  get all our previous shows hereWe are on the air Sunday mornings at 8:30 am MST. "The God Solution" is an interactive show that will discuss answers to humanity's questions about God and God's answers for humanity's questions. I really hope you'll tune in and listen and share the program with friends as well. If you live in the area listen to the show on 91.9 or 93.9 FM. If you don't live in the area, feel free to check out the show online at http://kdur.org/ and archived hereGet this week's notes here. If you like the show please e-mail KDUR at kdur_pd@fortlewis.eduThanks a ton and tune in every Sunday at 8:30 am!


  1. While, I genrally disagree with your views as they are in opposition to mine, I find your podcasts and writings to be well done, it’s obvious you take pride on both.

    This separation of church and state topic is important to me. Your quote that “free speech is a hallmark of democracy” is something that I agree with 100%. This, is one of the greatest things about our country.

    It’s obvious that you consider Christianity as more ‘true’ than any other religion, which is fine, but would you really support a Muslim candidate’s right to run for president? Would you change your stance if that candidate was posed to actually win? I ask this as your podcast defends religion in government, and as the USC states “no religion should be established by law” this means we could also enjoy a Jewish or Muslim president. I wonder how you’d feel about this.

    Currently we hear that homosexuality, abortion, etc… are anti Christian values. I don’t disagree with this, but how can these values be legislated into law if they are in opposition of MY rights as a non Christian?

    I personally don’t mind a nativity scene on public property, but I also would like the opportunity for other religions to be represented. If we can have Christian prayers and references in government places can atheists also have their beliefs added? Would you support my right to put Carl Sagan quotes next to scriptures in government buildings/schools?

  2. Thanks for the comment! I would definitely support anyone's (no matter their religion) right to run for president so long as they were committed to our constitution and country. Abortion involves the destruction of another so I don't think that is a valid point about infringing on someone else's rights. Homosexuality is a bit of a different issue. I don't think homosexuals shoud be discriminated against in any way, including in government. I also know there is no inequality in rights. Anyone (their included) can marry the opposite sex, no one (me included) can marry the same sex. No inequality. All licenses (including marriage) require certain criteria be met (ex. Medical licenses) - equality mandates those criteria be met across the board, not tweaked for certain individuals. Carl Sagan, by the way, is given plenty of exposure in schools and other public arenas (ex. The Cosmos). Coincidentally, our country wasn't founded on Sagan (obviously) but rather on Christian values - interesting how the tables have turned. Anyway, I am very thankful for your gracious comments. Please keep commenting.

  3. I don't think our nation was founded on christian values, it was founded on Anglo values that were adopted from Europe, namely France/England. These values do have a background in christianity, but our forefathers never envisioned a christian nation. "No Religion shall be established by law" seems like a way of saying our government is not to be representative of any one religion. The words ‘god’, ‘lord’ and ‘creator’ are NEVER mentioned in the Constitution or it’s amendments! The signatory sections does have ‘Lord’ mentioned as a reference to the date/year.

    We can look at Saudi Arabia, and other muslim countries and see how religious law is handled in government. I know it's unfair to lump you or anyone else into a specifically 'christian' category, but some of our politicians would love to have the religious power that Saudi Arabian politicians have.

    A quote from GW Bush comes to mind when talking about this :
    “I don’t know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”

    It is scary to me that our citizens elect people that think atheists are second class citizens, this above quote come from our former president! can you imagine the backlash had he substituted the work 'black' for atheist? Cased of blatant disregard for people beliefs would not bother me if they didn't have so much traction in our country.

    You seem to be a pretty smart christian – are you fighting and speaking against the in tolerances practiced by other christians or just standing by?

  4. How about THE founding document of our Nation? Every read that? Let me know what you find. Just one and there are many more as well. But not a relevant point in this discussion about freedoms which are protected. Anyway, I meet very few intolerant (disparaging others vs. critiquing ideas) Christians and you bet I challenge them. I meet very few non-Christians that are truly tolerant. We did a show on that. You might enjoy it. Thanks again for the comments.

  5. There were several documents- the Federalist papers, Articles of Confederation (no mention of god), etc... However they were all looked at, though about and discussed and the Constitution was the document that provided the laws and direction for our country. I'm assuming you are referring to the Declaration of Independence, in this document the word 'god' is mentioned 1 time, 'creator, once, and 'divine providence' is mentioned once. The word 'lord' is only mentioned in the date stamp (year of our lord, which was not a religious expression)

    If we are to use your tactics as a basis of discussion, I'll provide some Thomas Jefferson quotes that show a founding father's distrust of any religion.

    "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

    "Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. "

    However, you are correct, not really of interest as the US Constitution is what governs us today. Jefferson made these statements but they never made it into our constitution(which was agreed upon by all 13 colonies)

    I sense that you are dodging my questions by deflection and asking other questions in deference of providing a rebuttal.

    The topic at hand is whether separation of church and state is a fundamental.

    I'd like to hear a response to the quote from former President Bush regarding atheists? How do we say that we are allowed many religions when we are basically governed by one religion? It's easy to cut and paste quotes, but I'm looking for dialogue, not internet regurgitation. I only engage you because you're educated, well spoken, and don't resort to nonsense. I'm still waiting to hear from a christian that can justify the sheer number of religious comments with a hateful/respectful flavor that come from our politicians.

    Question: How do you feel about Bush's comment (remember over 50% of the population voted for him)

    “I don’t know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.”

    Also, is his comment in line with the way our constitution lays out freedom of religion?

  6. I Guess you are ensuring the only comments you allow are the ones where you don't have to answer hard questions? Please feel to email me privately if you have an issue with my comments. I'm not looking to disrespect just open dialogue

  7. I get the feeling you only post my comments that you can (in your mind) concretely refute? I mean no disrespect and have acted accordingly. I realize this is YOUR blog, so you can do as you please. However if I have offended or went past a boundary please email me in private if need be and let me know. I love a good debate and discussion with intelligent passionate people, It seemed as you do as well?

  8. No disrespect perceived. I'm very busy. Don't have time to go back and forth every day. I will get to these as soon as I get a break. Thanks for commenting.